Hey. Hey. And welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited today to have Ingrid Thompson with us. Ingrid is an author, educator, mentor, and podcaster. Her passion for business combined with her training and finance background has seen her develop a proven methodology for starting a business. Her book, So You Wanna Start a Business, takes readers through the steps to consider when considering getting started in business, filled with worksheets, activities, and Ingrid's practical tell it like it is approach to business. This book is changing the way women are getting into business.

 

And she also has a very popular podcast by the same name, So You Wanna Start A Business. And in this, she interviews business owners who share their business start up story to reveal the upsides and lessons learned along the way. Welcome, Ingrid. So glad you're here.

 

Thanks so much, Katherine. It sounds like I need to get rid of one of those considers, doesn't it? In that's just a little tongue twister at this time of the day. Yeah. So thanks so much for having me. And listeners, I'm really looking forward to our conversations.

 

Awesome. So I'd love for you to first start out by telling us a little bit how you actually got started in your own business.

 

Well, it was by accident completely. I had a long corporate career. I am one of those people that actually had a very happy corporate career. Although my friends say in hindsight, it wasn't so happy, but my memory's sort of tinted with rose tinted glasses, I think. But, so I spent many years working in a couple of Australia's largest corporations. And then it came around to that time when a lot of the people working in the training and development, learning and development areas were made redundant, let go, whatever we wanna call that And I thought, what am I going to do with myself? And I saw it as an opportunity to say, okay, let me see if this idea that's been ticking away in my mind might work and I designed and, made personally and then had somebody help me make a range of sleepwear That was very it was just pure cotton. It was for sleeping in. And I went to the markets every weekend and I made them myself.

 

I bought the fabrics, but it really wasn't sustainable for me as a business. And then somebody said to me one day, Ingrid, do you wanna come and help us out with our accounting, our book and I said, oh, it's so long since I've done any accounting because I was previously an accountant, Moved into training and development. So it must have been at least 10 or 15 years since I'd actually done any adding up of numbers in columns, and she said, Ingrid, you have to be better than the person we've had recently, the 3 or 4 that they'd had. So that took me back to working In accounting but what it took me to was small business and so I did the accounting for them and then I helped them with their budgets And then someone said if you're doing that for them, would you like to do that for me? And my business started and I responded to what people wanted. They needed help with their finances, they needed help with their numbers, they needed to set budgets, some of the compliance Stuff around. I wasn't a registered accountant so I didn't do people's tax returns, but it helped me see what small business needed I was in the business doing this work, listening to what was going on and it's fascinating. Small business is an amazing, absolute backbone of our country and same with yours. You know, small business is what really runs.

 

People think that the big businesses are what run the country but It's the small businesses that actually keep the country running. That's sort of how my business started. It wasn't my intention. I thought I would go back to the corporate world at some point, But, yeah, there I am.

 

What what an amazing point there as well about doing what the other what businesses asking for and letting them kinda lead you. That's incredible. Now coming full circle, and I'm sure we'll touch on that some more at some point, but coming full circle to now in your business, Even though you've modeled things after what others need, what your audience needs, what is it about your business that really lights you up? I

 

well, there's a few things. There's the, the external. So it's what I actually am able to do for people, people who don't have the knowledge And the experience that I have. So I understand finance. I understand systems and processes. I understand customer service. And these are the things that are truly important when you're running a business of any size. So just helping people see the importance of putting Systems in place, getting the numbers right, having a really sound process for looking after customers.

 

So really understanding what that Journey is that a customer might take and where are the customer contact points along the way. And then that's what grows a business. So just really helping people in their business. And then the other side of it is my own side is the, just the way my lifestyle is having a business myself is that You sort of choose the times of day that you wanna work. You get to choose the customers you work with, so it's both sides. It's the two sides of that, it's the work that I'm able to do in the world because for me to just sit and not share that, would be wrong. And but there's also a tiny selfish part of it that allows me to do what I wanna do and, yeah, work with who I

 

wanna work. Yeah. When I work with my clients, I often talk to them about the the side that's the impact side, but then also not leaving out that selfish why, because you've gotta wanna do it. Right? There's gotta be something for you. So I love that. You have both. Yeah. I'm glad that you have both there.

 

So When you work with small business owners now and they're coming to you, I know that one of the things that you help them with is figuring out How to Niche Down. And so let's dive into that a little bit because even though Even though it's extremely important, so many business owners really resist that early on, and it sounds counterintuitive. They're struggling to get clients At first or they don't understand how to get clients, and they feel like, okay. Wait. You want me to narrow down who I'm talking to and marketing to in order to grow. So can you talk a little bit about that and why it is so important?

 

Well, I think the best way is to give examples. So, I I have written the book, So You Want to Start a Business and the the book is generic. It's Anybody thinking about starting a flower shop, a yoga studio, making a product, you know, it's it's the book is there. It's The Fundamental 7 Steps. So if I'm talking about the book, it's a very general discussion and people listen and they hear it. I work mostly with health professionals, healers, well-being, people who work in that sort of environment. And so when I'm talking to them, my language starts to become much more specific and so I even more than that, I work a lot with Pilates, yoga, personal trainers And so while the language is specific to the health professional, to somebody who works in well-being and healing, Other people can hear it as well and so it doesn't it's actually I think there's a real freedom in lots of people can hear what you're saying If you're able to make it very specific to the person that you really wanna work with. And mine just keeps getting narrower and narrower because, You know, I and it doesn't mean that I can't work with other people and I think that's the important thing to remember.

 

And I've I've been thinking about this question because I knew we were going to talk about it and I think what happens is people look at Apple and people look at Facebook And they see, you know, a third of the planet is engaged with Facebook. You know, I don't know how much of the planet has Apple products. That's not how they started and I think this is why people find it hard to understand the importance of the niche Is that if you look at Apple, now I can remember Apple in the 90s when computers first came in And there's no way in the world I saw myself as an Apple user. It was a very specific creative group of people that, You know, I don't know if I even knew anybody that was an Apple. Like, to me, that was such a niche. It it was those bubbles, know, if people could remember those lovely colored bubble computers, that were very very creative people, they were, you know, people who were a very select Audience. And the same with Facebook. Facebook started with 1 small class of college students and then it grew from there.

 

So I think it's really, really important not to take these big companies as our role models, but in fact, to look at Their history and where they started and I think those are 2 of the best and you could apply that to any tea brand, clothing brand. You know, they start with a very small niche and the fact that they're worldwide popular now, that's not the story. So if we're In the 1st few years of our business, then who do we really wanna do that for and do it so well that nobody else can Nobody else can offer what we're offering.

 

That's amazing. I love thinking back to those examples. And even Facebook for myself, I remember When it started with a small class of college students, it became available to colleges. And I was actually still in college in my senior year when, they started to spread it out to other colleges, and I was just waiting. I couldn't wait for for them to let my college get on the platform, and finally they did. But, Yeah. It's it's grown a lot from there, and it's easy it's easy to forget that.

 

Wow. I hadn't I mean, I I I don't think it came to Australia till it was Well and truly established.

 

Okay. I don't

 

know when it I don't know when it came here, but I mean and for most people, it's like it's always been. Yeah. It's almost as if Facebook never existed. I mean, it has always existed. Right.

 

Right. Yes. So okay. So that clearly helps as I'll see the importance. What are some of the benefits of have so, obviously, that was helpful to Apple. It's helpful to Facebook. Why is that helpful to the small business owner?

 

Well, I work let's say, a Pilates instructor that I work with. So, recently, I was talking to this one particular instructor and she wanted to start her own studio and we she was ready to get going and then We said how about we have a plan, have a think about it. So in looking at who she was going to be an instructor for, like who was her Pilates client, She it turned out when we looked at her, who are her clients that come in regularly, who are the ones that really, as your expression, light her up, You know, when she looks at that list and sees who's coming in today is like, ah, John's coming in or Karen's coming in and who are they and what is it that's Similar about them that that helps her decide who her niche is. It turned out she was really good at working with men Who were in their 30s to 40s and had an injury of some sort. Now you could think that Pilates, everybody would come to Pilates But by her turning her attention to men who are in their thirties and forties who have an injury and she helps them Get back to the gym, get back on the bike, get back to the running track, whatever it is that they wanna do. So what happens then if you're a man in your forties and you have Fallen off your bike and you've got an injury, you've done something to one of those muscles in your legs or maybe more than 1, you're looking for somebody to help you. Are you going to go to the generalist Pilates instructor who helps everyone do everything or are you gonna take your legs with their injuries To someone who specialises in looking after people who've done injuries and get them back on. You are going to take your injury to someone who knows how to look after injuries and, you know, I know you've given examples of, you know, when your child broke its arm and, you know, so we looked We, for ourselves, we look for someone who has a specialty.

 

I have curly hair. Do I go to a general hairdresser? No way. I have found someone who only works with curly hair and so he cuts my hair because he understands curl. Yeah. So when we are looking for someone, we look for a specialist. So why would we not offer some kind of specialty? Does my Pilates woman work with people who aren't 30 40 year old men with leg injuries or arm injuries? Of course she does. Lots of other people come to her because she works with other people, but that's the area she talks to. That's the area she attracts.

 

And so many people are afraid. There there's literally fear that comes up with, okay. If I only talk about those with Injuries that no one else is going to want to hire me, but that's just simply not true. So how do you how do you address that fear other than just stating these facts that we've stated. How can how can we work through it?

 

Well, I think using the examples, I think examples are a part of it. And I think if somebody really is fearful, then sometimes we have to be a little bit tough. And if we look at if we continue on that general path, then how's that working for you? And I don't use that expression very often because, You know, most of the people who come to me are smart. Most of the people who come to me, kind of know that What we're working with is the truth and I'm here to help give them the confidence that if they take that niche approach that they are more likely to be successful and so have the confidence to stay with that. And I think one of the dangers is that we take more, I just I wanna say we take a broader approach because we wanna be able to have more clients because we need more money. And if money is the issue that we're taking more clients, then how else can we have money? And sometimes Having a side job, you know, doing something part time and going to run your business as a part time side hustle rather than a full on Business allows that creation of the niche without having to worry about the money because I think if money's the driver for treating everybody, then that's not going to actually work. It's it's counterproductive. So, you know, I think if you look at a lot of the really successful people, like so if I take my Pilates instructor, for example, so while she was getting ready to start her business, She was working in 3 or 4 other Pilates studios just doing whatever they wanted.

 

So while she then built her own clientele that said, This is what I specialise in. This is what I work with. And and she's now got a very successful, Pilates studio right near the beach. She does have a number of clients who are in that, cohort of the injured, but she has a lot of other, clients that aren't. So it doesn't it doesn't mean that that's the only ones you see.

 

That makes sense. And I think one thing that I wanna point out here is that When you don't take the time early on to niche down, then over time, you're building all of this content. You're building your online presence, your business presence, Biffus, Brick and More, all of these things. And later, you actually pay more money to go back and kinda redo things because Mhmm. You've got to focus at some point, and and all that time and energy is to a degree wasted, and you've gotta start over. Because when you're not If it's not working and you have to go back and refine everything, that actually costs you more money. So

 

Yeah. You're absolutely right. Yeah. And in fact, my own personal example is that Because while it looked like at the beginning I was being responsive to everybody, what that did was, and that was a real turning point in my business, Is it on one particular weekend, 3 of my most important people in my life said to me, Ingrid, we have no idea what you do. And My sister, my best friend, and another very good business friend, you know, somebody I like, we co mentor each other and things like that. And it was fascinating that in the same weekend, all 3 of them said to me, Ingrid, we would do anything in the world to help you, but we don't know what you do so we can't tell anybody else what you do. And that was my wake up call to say, okay, I need to get really clear about what I do, who I do it for So that, people can help me because and that's another point to that is that nobody can refer you if you are doing everything for everybody. Yeah.

 

And the truth is, Catherine, if people did everything for everybody, you couldn't. Like, if every single person who wants to start a business in Sydney even came to me, I couldn't cope with that. Great. Let alone Australia and, you know, and I work with people around the world, but I work with that group of people who are health and well-being, Predominantly Pilates, yeah, around the world. So

 

Wow. So okay. You mentioned one way to start to dive in and figure out who your audience is is to imagine your favorite clients. What if you're just getting started and you don't have that many clients? What are some steps that you recommend to help someone decide on their Niche, if they truly are trying to figure it out from the very beginning.

 

I think it's tough at the beginning. I really do. So there's a couple of things. If you've been an accountant in a corporation and you're now going and you've been working, you know, in Accounting and you're going to set up your own accounting practice. You can probably do something similar. There's either probably a type of work you've enjoyed doing, You might have enjoyed, doing reconciliations and, you know, going back through people who haven't done their tax return for a number of years. Maybe that's That's your niche. You might particularly be interested in working with creatives because, you know, they don't understand tax and accounting so much so you might choose to be the accountant for creatives.

 

So you probably have an idea from what you've done. I think where it becomes very difficult is if you're an accountant and now you want to run a flower shop Or you've been an accountant and you wanna be a photographer. What do you know about that? Have you been doing that as your hobby? And the The chances are if you absolutely sit with yourself, you know what niche you want, you know you want to take photos of people's dogs, You actually don't wanna do weddings, you but you might do weddings just to earn some money, mind you, and as as you know, Waiting, sir.

 

Says, yeah.

 

Yeah. So, you know, I can understand why nobody would ever wanna take photos at a wedding because you're never gonna get the right photo. I don't Sorry. I don't care how good you are. Somebody's always going to be unhappy. But but choose your niche. But absolutely, I think that is where it's That is where you have to be a little bit selfish and say, who is it that I truly love working with? Who lights me up? As to use your You know, when when whether it's and there's there's a pattern in your past whether it's starting a business and you've Been in the corporate world or you've done, you know, odd jobs, you know, maybe waitressing, there will be a pattern of people that you are interested in. The pattern's there.

 

Yeah. Or you've seen a niche in the future that you, that you think isn't being covered. So, you know, like, we've had a lot of people over the last 10 years. There's a lot of specialty breads. There's a lot of specialty foods have come out because People have allergies or eating preferences and there isn't the products to meet that and so, you know, I have a Gorgeous client who makes chai tea. So she only makes chai tea. She's got a beautiful Indian heritage. The family story is delightful, You know, and that's she makes chai and that's all she makes.

 

So, you know, because that's part of her heritage and she tells her story and, you know, people just And and the whole well-being that comes with drinking that tea, is is part of her story. And that's an interesting thing because when I talk about health and well-being and healing, people like that come to me as well because, you know, she's Consistent with my philosophy of what is well-being for people and her tea fits into that. Do I go out talking to tea making people to be my client? No. But She hears my language of health and well-being. So, yeah, the answer is there for people. They just need to take a good hard look at it, and they know. Yeah.

 

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Good point there. So focusing in on one specific kind of tea leads me to another question, and that is, how do you know when you've niched down far enough?

 

Well, she's doing really well. So, And and, you know, it's funny that that's such a good question. People then because we're starting our own business, one of the challenges is To not be a super creative and say, oh, what about this? Oh, the bright shiny object syndrome. I I I don't know if you know of that one, but

 

it's the

 

one where something Pops up over here and you go, oh, that'd be nice. And I'm I'm so guilty of it. So I have to have a board over here with my post it notes saying There's a bright shiny object. Let's post that and we'll have a look at that in May. And if you're still so excited about it in May, we'll give it some more time. But right now you're focusing over here. So what she's been approached with and I'll use her as the example is, oh, what about ice cream? Because it's super hot, You know, oh, we don't really wanna drink chai tea, we wanna have chai ice cream. Nope.

 

That's not what she does. She's sticking to her chai tea. So it could and but having said that, Maybe a product that she might wanna develop in the future is a chai ice cream and so you do need to listen a little bit to the, what the audience is looking for and what the market is demanding. So, you know, what are the natural things that you would progress to? But, yes, sticking with that early niche, I think it's important.

 

Okay. So I think this even goes back to the example of Apple and really honing in on one thing and then eventually looking at extensions

 

Mhmm. Of

 

your products or services, but starting out with one thing and making sure that that's successful first and, clearly, it's that's great.

 

Yeah. And and the phone, if we take Apple, the phone then was what took it to everybody. Yeah. And then and then the Mac, you know, I don't know which came first, the Mac or the phone. Certainly the phone was my first product and that's where Apple was so smart, you know, really the iPad was what introduced Ordinary people, not the super creative people, but the Ipod was a 1,000 songs in everybody's pocket. So, you know, that was the introduction that all of us could Says something like an Apple product and then if you look at that history again is then it was the phone, the Mac and once you're in their architecture, you just can't Get outside of it, can you?

 

Yeah. I know. Right? Yeah. Everything works together, and, you know, I certainly don't wanna leave. I love Apple products. And this isn't sponsored, by the way.

 

No. This is not sponsored by Evelyn, by shape, or form. But I just think it's a good meme like people really it it only was and I know in those in the nineties when we were getting computers, I didn't even understand what they I mean, I thought there's no way in the world I'd even I'm sure the He strokes it even different. You know, like, it was a mystery. It's it was mysterious. It was over there. Yeah.

 

Okay. So 1 more question for you related to this. Is there such a thing as niching down too much?

 

I think the answer to that would be, if you're not making any money and you have no clients, And potentially the answer is yes. Okay. So if you've become so narrow that nobody can find you, then, yeah, maybe it is niched too much. But, you know, there is a Facebook group. I don't know if you have it in America. I'm sure you do. But, you know, when the fruit and vegetables, the fruit particularly has a little sticker on it and the little sticker says where the apple came from or where the avocado was grown.

 

Mhmm.

 

There is a Facebook group for fruit stickers. That's really neat. Yeah. There's hundreds of people in that Facebook group because they're all over the world and they're, you know, there's something about them That they just get together. So I don't know what product or service you could offer, sticker fruit people, but You know, I think this you could you can niche to a very, very narrow there are people who have a very narrow interest and depending on What it is you offer, yeah. I I had a client, just when she was first getting started, she only came to me a couple of times And she makes the tiny tiny, decorations for, aquariums, for tiny fish aquariums. So she makes small toys to put inside a fish aquarium. Now that's a tiny market but worldwide that's a huge market.

 

So that's all she does, she makes small animals for inside a fish tank, a tiny fish tank. So you know there's, I don't know and she's successful, But she gets as much work as she wants to get to do, doing what she loves and do and and making gorgeous little things for people Who I don't know what they would do if they didn't have her online store to buy their little tiny fish tank decorations from. It's like interior designed for fish tanks. So, you know, I think there's a part of the answer to the question is that there is lots of examples of very tiny niches And if you're making money and you have clients, then that's the answer to the question. If you haven't got enough, Then what do you need to do about the niche? You either get your marketing out more and you find more of your people because they're out there Or maybe you have narrowed so far, but there's how many billions of people on the planet? Right. Yeah.

 

That's true. I feel like if you really focus in and you do the marketing well, that you can find your people. And, of course, it relates to your goals and how much money you wanna make and how many clients you wanna serve, but, your people are out there. And most of the time, People are really surprised by how few clients we need to have a profitable business. So many people think that you need 1,000,000,000 of people or 1,000, and, really, you just need a handful at a time to serve really well, especially in the service industry.

 

Well, and especially too because this is one of the things that I talk to people about is, like, get the numbers right. So what do you actually need? You know, if your if it costs you $500 a month to run your business and that's for your phone, for your internet, for your insurances, for, you know, paying people to help you with some of the the things that you do And you wanna pay yourself a salary, say $2,000 a month or $5,000 a month, well what do you need? How many clients do you actually need To have to pay that. So or multiply that every year and and figure out how many clients do you actually need. So for somebody who's home based and serviced, That may not be a large number of people as you just said. Now if you're paying rent somewhere and you're paying $5,000 a month rent for somewhere, that changes the ballgame. And that's, you know, if you've got Pilates equipment or you're a dentist and you're paying 100 of 1,000 of dollars for equipment, now you're talking about a much bigger scale. And so, you know, you you have to be careful how you niche that

 

but you

 

can still do the same kind of thing. You know, there's there's still Every single person needs a dentist and pretty much everybody needs Pilates. So, you know, and that scale is different depending on what your costs are. And as you said, how much money you wanna make? How much, you know, what is what how much hours are you prepared to put in? Because that's the other side of that is if you want to make a lot of money, Then what are you prepared to do for that? You know, it takes effort. You know, when you read the histories of Elon Musk and and, Steve Jobs, Those people worked 27 hours a day just to make their products. They worked more hours than they were in the day. I don't know how they do it, but that's what they've done. Right.

 

That's a very important part of the equation. So you're right. You know, she just said, you know, what is it that you really want from the business? It goes Back to that. What is your goals? What are your dreams? What are you trying to achieve?

 

Yeah. So let's bring that full circle then to your book. I wanna chat about your book a little bit before we wrap up. So what made you decide to write this book, and, you know, why were you the right person to write the book?

 

Well, I was part of a program and writing the book was part of the program.

 

So it

 

was a program that's had, different aspects of what makes you Successful as the expert in your field.

 

Mhmm.

 

And so that was part of that process of discovering What it was that I was my key expertise, and so I chose a different topic to write the book about I just couldn't get excited about it. It was, I just, you know, I sat down to write and it wasn't I just knew it wasn't me and it wasn't really something I was interested in. And then when I thought about the sort of people that I really wanted to impact and the reason I wrote that book is because I work a lot with people who Working in a business. And as you said, if you get things wrong, it can be very expensive to go back and fix things up. And so I thought if people actually spent just a little bit more time getting started, then maybe they wouldn't have to fix up so much Down the track and so that was the inspiration for writing that particular book. So the book was part of a program and honestly not everybody who's in that program writes a book. It's a big deal to write a book. It's a lot more than most people realise, but once I got going I was so Excited to get the content on the paper and, yeah.

 

So it it really when I get the feedback from people, the the way it's helped them has been amazing.

 

And you outlined 7 steps to start your business. Right?

 

So I talk about who are you to start a business? So that's the first part. And then what is your idea? Who is your audience? What's your brand? Let's talk about numbers and then there's all the compliance stuff and then the marketing. So there's the aspects of it, and there's worksheets and things to work through. So it's it's quite it's Very comprehensive, and you know it really does give people an idea and I know that there's other books out there with the same kind of content but, You know, it's a very practical approach. Yeah. That's it's the feedback's been very, welcoming.

 

Awesome. So I will drop A link in the show notes so everyone can check that out. If you're starting a business and you wanna check out her 7 steps, then go Click on the link in the show notes. And do you have any last parting words as we wrap up today?

 

I I think that there's never been a better time to start a business. It's never been easier. Look at the technology that we've got, that you can if you really know what you wanna do and you determined to do the work, to find the people who can help you. It's not something you can do on your own. It's very lonely, being on in business, especially if you are home based business, it's it can be very expensive to make a lot of mistakes. People can waste a lot of time, a lot of energy, just fiddling around on their own. There's a lot of seat of the pants sort of people, but For someone who is quite planful, there is nothing to stop somebody being successful in business. But Today, it's easier than ever and, there are more than enough people to help you with the various aspects.

 

I Don't believe that 1 person can do everything for people. I think when people are getting started, they need different things. Super important to get their structure right, Like, have a chat to their accountant, make sure they've got the legalities, get your insurances in place, do those sorts of things, And then really think about who is your person, what is it you do for them, and what will they appreciate about The what the the knowledge that you impart to them, and so find people to help you and just run like crazy. Just put your head down, do the work, get on with it.

 

I love that. I, heard someone else recently talking about imperfect action, and I think that's just so important. Just Get out there and do it like you said. Just take the action. It doesn't have

 

to be

 

perfect, but do it. Get it done.

 

And sometimes that's scary because, you know, particularly if it's a service or it's something that we Feel really passionate about, you know, just, you know, one of my greatest challenges is going out and talking to complete strangers and just Saying, you know what? Here's what I do. Is there anybody in your world that I could do this for? And you have to be able to sell. You know, you it's important to be able to and we call it selling, but it's important to be able to communicate what you do Really effectively so that people wanna go, yeah, I need that, and, that they come to you and say, yep, you're the one that I need. It's just so no. Your customers aren't gonna find you sitting at home behind your Apple computer.

 

I know. If only it were that easy. So Yes, sir. I know. I agree. So get the help that you need. Look to the resources that are available to you. There's so many, including your book, So everyone go check out her book.

 

And, Ingrid, thank you so much.

 

Go ahead and talk to people. Go ahead and talk to people about what you're doing, and yeah. Smart. Catherine, thanks so much. Thank you.