Kathryn Binkley  

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the podcast. today. I've got Jen and Annie. I'm gonna let them introduce themselves here in a moment, but they are phenomenal. I love talking to these two ladies, I can talk for hours. And there's a lot that I can't wait for them to share with you about what they do and how that can apply to how you run your business. So first, let me let them introduce themselves. I don't know who wants to take this dinner any but will you jump in.

Jennifer Campbell  

I will go first and introduce my business partner Annie, who is my rock in this business, and an amazing COO and she lives in Des Moines, Iowa and has three kids and literally does it all and I am so thankful for her.

Annie Brees  

Well, that was a twist. I didn't see coming, but much appreciated. I'm Annie. Hi, everyone. Kathryn, thanks for having us. It's so nice to be here. I guess I will introduce Jen, who is our CEO and our visionary. She is the ideas woman. I have this analogy that Jen is on the like, she has summited a mountain. And she has her walkie talkie and she is walking talking down to me with the team saying like, Hey, I made it up here, the weather's great, you're gonna enjoy the view. I'm gonna go on and go ahead to the next summit. I'll see you guys there. And then I'm down on the ground saying, Okay, we're gonna go Jen said this is the past, this is what we need to do, we're gonna follow her guidance. She is, I can see maybe 20 miles ahead, Jen can see like 2000 miles ahead. And without her ideas and her, her vision and perspective, we would not be the size that we are today. So super thankful. 

Jennifer Campbell  

The part I would disagree with that, is that you say the path is this way. Like I get up to the top of the mountain in one step. I have no idea how anyone else is getting up there. And Annie is with our team and she has a sword. And she's like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out how we'll get there. But I'm gonna figure out how.

Annie Brees  

Jen says it's possible. We can do it. 

Kathryn Binkley  

Jen took the helicopter. She took the quick route straight off the top. But that helicopter isn't big enough for the team. So you've got to figure out the hard path.

Jennifer Campbell  

And the just like, the bane of my existence is sharing ideas with Annie and then her going. Okay, but how? Like,

Annie Brees  

I don't know, that's your job.

Jennifer Campbell  

I don't think about those things. 

Kathryn Binkley  

So good. Yeah, I wasn't expecting you to introduce each other either. But I'm so glad that you did. And like, I just love the dynamic of having two people in a business working together. And having those two strings that just balance each other out. And, you know, anyway, as we go through today, like feel free to share anything else that comes up for that. That wasn't what I thought about specifically with this episode. But I just always love the two different personalities, two different approaches. And I know it's so needed. And that's something I remember even us talking about way back when, when we started working together was those unique skill sets. And really, it wasn't about who does something better. We needed both skill sets. And so that's even just a reminder of man, remember, this conversation is like mapping out your skill sets and comparing like, feels like so long ago.

Jennifer Campbell  

That's I think a good starting point is talking about when you came on Kathryn, it was chaotic. It was total chaos behind the scenes and like my mind was a mess. We had just had some big team things happen. And I didn't know the way forward and I remember my first meeting with you, and just, just bla just dumping like, Hi, here's where we're at, blah. And you replied to me, like almost, like you were just able to verbalize exactly what we need. I was like sigh of relief and even the person who recommended you to us. I remember messaging her like four months in and being like, I just want to thank you. Like that felt, Kathryn was exactly what we needed. And it was the universe put us together like that. It was a miracle in my mind that we met you when we did. And, like we were losing the business at that point, I don't want to say we were, you know, about to file bankruptcy by any means, but we were on the decline, big time. And it was just a very scary time when you came on. I don't think we were even paying ourselves, then anywhere we 

Annie Brees  

No, Iwas, I was gonna say, I think we took, I'm not necessarily recommending this for other people. But we felt like we had no other choice but to invest any money that we did have into coaching with Kathryn at the expense of our own salaries, which we were both lucky enough to be in a position where we could afford that for, for some time. But had we not done that? I don't think we would have come out on the other side.

Jennifer Campbell  

I don't think so either. We were, we were on a declining trajectory. And we we didn't have another six months left, I don't think 

Annie Brees  

The ship was sinking, 

Jennifer Campbell  

The ship was sinking. And we were, we had buckets, and we were trying to, like, you know, get the water out. But there were holes in the ship that we were not aware of

Annie Brees  

The ship was sinking because of our backend like systems and processes and disorganization and communication, not because we didn't have a great idea or a great product or a great service. Like all of that was fine. It was like we were struggling behind the scenes, which then impacted our ability to execute on

Jennifer Campbell  

Yeah, like, we're out here changing lives. And we're sinking. Like it's like, yeah, we just didn't have the systems in place for it to be sustainable.

Kathryn Binkley  

It's so interesting for me to hear you to recall where you were, because I remember where you were, I remember that first conversation. And as you're talking, I absolutely agree with what you're saying. And at the same time, but when I heard it, I just from my perspective, it was just like, Okay, this is normal. It's all easily fixable. You had an amazing vision, a raving fan base, results for your clients, like you had everything you needed. And just a few tweaks, and I knew that they could look different. So for me, it never felt like even though it felt to you like the sinking ship, I looked at it, and I was like, oh, there's a lot of potential here like, this is not going to be difficult to turn things around. And so it's just I say that to say like, for anyone listening, that's feeling maybe the same way. That doesn't mean it has to be hard or difficult to make a shift. Like we can really make some progress quickly,

Jennifer Campbell  

which is a big, I think, point around different skill sets on a team and not hiring people who are just like you. And we just systems were not something I it was just a whole dark shadowed area for me, like how could these possibly help? Like What did, what does that even mean or look like? And it's interesting, because we run our women's health coaching company, and our members feel the exact same when they like, I don't. It's so unclear the path forward, they hear us talking about food freedom, moving towards their goals in a values based way that isn't depleting. And they're like, sounds good, but I don't like how and that's why they join, you know, our company. And so it almost feels like we were having the same experience with you. And it was, you know, it was also just your like, your persona, like your confidence and your calm. That just, I don't know, it was just such a relief. It was like she knows what she's doing. And we're going to turn things around.

Kathryn Binkley  

I know like in that moment, I was thinking like some things could really start to shift quickly. And I even wanted to talk about what I mean by that. Because I know that we don't use a company and even the way that I do business, it's not all about everything shifting overnight. It's about starting to see the, the changes in the way things feel. And seeing that this is doable. And seeing the path forward more clearly and confidently and knowing that you can not just get there, but then sustain it. And you don't have to worry about this feeling of a sinking ship ever again.

Jennifer Campbell  

And also, it's this kind of thing you brought to the team where it's like, it's not just about taking actions, you all have to think certain thinking differently. And that was you know, that was the foundation really like that was like, Oh, yes, yeah, we can't keep trying to solve these problems in the same way we always have.

Kathryn Binkley  

Can you remember any special quick examples of that either of you that you would be willing to share what comes to mind specifically. 

Jennifer Campbell  

I have a memory of having a meeting. I think Annie was on board with these, you know, systems and frameworks quicker than I was, I was having a hard time believing that those things could actually make a difference. And I have this memory of having a meeting with you two, I don't know how long we had working together. But it was the meeting that made me walk away and go, I need to stop this, I need to think differently, I need to trust. And you two, were trying you were telling me about how we needed, you know, a system here and we need a framework here. And I was just staring at you two feeling like they're trying to oppress my creative freedom. And just looking at you two like, What are you talking about? Like, are you serious? Don't you think people will just get it? And I just have this moment where you two were staring at me, like, is this like your faces were like, Is this happening? And I just thought, this is a me issue, I have to change, I have to change. And it was also a moment for me where I was like, not everybody thinks like me, not everybody thinks like me, and I have to stop this. And in the end, I have grown to love systems and frameworks. And for somebody that has a very, you know, more creative mind. I was so resistant to them in the beginning. And now I find them so comforting. It's just been this crazy shift for me. And I see how our team and company has thrived because of them. What do you think Annie?

Annie Brees  

I don't, I think I blacked out. A lot of apple here. They were kind of rough. I don't remember any one specific conversation or experience. But I can tell you that in, in the time working with Kathryn, I started to, this sounds creepy Kathryn. But I mean, that's nothing but love and admiration, started to internalize your voice and perspectives. And so when Jen would come to me with ideas, and still does, or suggestions or changes, or anyone on the team, for that matter, I am now seeing that opportunity from a completely different perspective. So it's like, what I'm asking, like Kathryn type questions, what problem are we trying to solve? Okay, like, what does this look like, start to finish? What are the impacts today, tomorrow, next week, 10 years from now? Like, is this really in alignment with our values and our mission? You know, instead of just okay, Jen says it's a great idea. And Jen generally had great ideas, this sounds great. So I can definitely see, to me what's felt like, like growth and maturity, and how I show up in our business. And I've seen it in Jen, in a way that's relevant to her and her position. And I've definitely, as Jen said, seeing that trickle down into our team, as well.

Kathryn Binkley  

Asking those questions. And really, it's all about asking the different kinds of questions that maybe you were before. And when you do that, I'm curious, like, from my perspective, I can share briefly, but I'm curious what you think about the results when you're asking those different questions, because I think it's not the question of how do we accomplish this as fast as possible? How do we cram this in? And you know, Jen has this brilliant idea, and we need to do it tomorrow. It turns into, how do we get this accomplished over the course of the long term in a way that is more sustainable? And so just curious if there's anything that comes up for you around? How asking different questions actually changed the way that the business ran day to day or how that felt for you in the team?

Annie Brees  

I can think of, if I sat here long enough, I could probably think of a lot of ideas that either Jen or I have had that we have ultimately vetoed, because we've seen, for example, when we want to implement something last minute, what that does to our team and the whiplash that it creates, and how that impacts their work experience and increases stress and just quality of work seems to decrease rapidly when we're working on tight deadlines. And it's like, this is not the kind of environment we want to have. So it's now it's like, okay, we're not going to do that. Now. Maybe later. Let's table it. But it's, we've come to so many conclusions where it's like, that's a great idea. And we can't do it right now.

Jennifer Campbell  

And some not so great ideas like we've learned, we have different. We have a different filter for ideas now. And I think I also started to see, you know, like the harm it causes me specifically sharing all my ideas with the whole team. And just the nature of, you know, my position in the company and the team. I even see it today that I have to be very careful with what I share with the team as far as, hey, I have this idea. And then I'll then team members will show up and slack there and be like, Should I do that right now? Should I? And I'm like, oh, yeah, this is why I take my ideas to Annie first, and we don't share it with the team until we're ready to implement on it. And you know, I have ideas constantly. And it's, it's like the blessing and the curse of being a visionary. Not all of them are good ideas. I think, I don't know if I read this. I don't know if Kathryn told me this. If Annie did. It's like one of every 10 ideas that comes out of a visionary will actually be like a viable good idea. But I was at a movie last week. texted me in the middle of the movie, because I had this idea. And I couldn't stop thinking about it. And I wasn't even paying attention to the movie anymore. And I was like, vending machines, we need vending machines. I just felt it was our future at that moment. But then by Monday, I was like, Oh, that was strange.

Annie Brees  

And fast forward to Monday, we have a level 10 meeting, which is one of the experiences we did not have pre Kathryn, PC, or PK that Jen verbalizing this vending machine idea. And I could just see it on her face as it's coming out of her mouth that she's like, look, they're not all great ideas. Okay. I didn't even have to tell her like, Man, I don't think this is it. 

Jennifer Campbell  

Oh, that's funny. Yes. So those things happen too. And so we've learned to manage, I guess that visionary energy, because it's, it's understanding that, that's exhausting for our team. And it's harmful to our team and our culture. And that has to be managed.

Annie Brees  

I think another way that you really influenced and you kind of touched on this is, I think Jen and I have both really let go of our egos. And we see each other as like the yin and the yang. But like we are, we're both needed, even though you know, in traditional business structures, maybe the CEO is above the COO or whatnot. But like, I can't do this without Jen, Jen can't do this without me. And ultimately, we're both here to do what's best for the business, regardless of whose ideas move forward or advance. And it's less about as Brene Brown has been right and more about an effort to ge,t to get it right.

Kathryn Binkley  

Yeah. So with that said, and with what Jen mentioned about filters, what are some of those filters that you're using to make decisions by like, when you have an idea? How do you know it's the right one?

Jennifer Campbell  

Well, we look at our quarterly plans, which we do way in advance, not the day before. So our ideating comes before the year begins now. And we plan out company rocks for each quarter, and how those trickled down into department rocks. And so if an idea comes up, that is outside those rocks, it's, it's a no, or, I'm not sure if anyone agrees with me on this, but like, it would have to be a very good idea. And there'd have to be a very good reason why we implement on that one, instead of you know, we don't have like hard rules around that it could be flexible, but there would have to be a very good reason why we would divert the department and company's attention towards that new thing. Just the, the importance of planning has been revolutionary. 

Kathryn Binkley  

So let's say you're sitting down to do that planning, and you have all of the ideas and, and all of the projects, even that any that you want to do as well. I think that a few of the categories that come to mind that I know that we spent time working on together were like filters of things like is this a scalable idea? Is this going to be profitable? Is this going to be sustainable? And there are several projects I can remember where we had to ask those questions, things like, you know, you have some, some items that you'd like to print and mail out and we had to really sit down and look at the profitability of that and how we can price those things. So those are a few things that come to mind. Anything that you'd add, when I toss those three kinds of categories out.

Annie Brees  

I think teamwork capacity is definitely a filter as well, which, you know, our team has expanded quite a bit in the last couple years. And just being really mindful that when you, when you initiate an idea in one department, how is that going to trickle over into other departments? And what does that do to the resources available like from, you know, support, budget, like, the hands required to see it to completion, Jen and I, again, have been guilty of rolling out ideas and not realizing or not really thinking far enough ahead to think like, this is gonna need a lot of people's hands on it. And are they available? Are they interested? Do they have the time to do that?

Jennifer Campbell  

Yeah, I actually remember, do you remember when I came to you too, with like that I think we needed to launch a nonprofit part of our business like tomorrow, and I had already talked to a few people about it. And you too, were like, hey, very gently. This is a great idea, Jen, have you considered, you know, team capacity? Like, how would we actually do this. And I remember Kathryn saying, this is, this is a good idea. And if it's something you're passionate about, and it's aligned with the company values, but it is not going to be, you love it, but it's not going to be sustainable, unless you are at. And you were saying it's not necessarily a time thing. We don't have to shelve it for seven years, it's more, you need to figure out what the resources are going to be that you need on it. You know, you basically were telling me, I needed a business plan for this nonprofit, and when could that realistically fit into the company? And that was just another, you know, moment for me when I thought, wow, okay, like she's right. And it sounds good to launch a nonprofit, as you know, essentially, a department of your business and arm or your business. But you're actually harming people in that way. If that nonprofit isn't set up? Well, if it's not going to be sustainable if we don't have the consistent revenue that's able to feed that nonprofit. And it just, it's just all these epiphanies for me around like I would say, the sustain, like, is this sustainable? is the number one question that I asked myself, and is this scalable? Is another question. I ask myself constantly, like, could we still be doing this? Does this make sense at this level? And this level? And this level? Does it still make sense?

Kathryn Binkley  

And how is that different than what you've seen in the industry overall? Because I don't think that everyone is asking questions or approaching things in that same way.

Jennifer Campbell  

I have personally, I'll let Annie speak for herself. But I have personally come to see the business coaching industry in the same light that and he and I speak about the diet industry. And, you know, a lot of our company messaging is around that it is, no which is like there was obviously an enormous cognitive disconnect for me from what we do with health and wellness, business. But, you know, in the diet industry, we have, you know, all these quick fixes, and, you know, women just chasing their tails, and you know, often what can feel like burning down their emotional and physical health trying to, you know, improve their nutrition, lose weight, whatever their goals are, and none of it ever lasts. It's, it's not sustainable, and it doesn't work in the real world. And so, you know, that's our message. And we coach women, and help them find what's sustainable with our framework, our flexible framework. And so I have come to see the business coaching industry in that same light, there are so many business coaches, business coaching companies out there, taking an advantage of what I think is like co founder, co founder vulnerabilities, and they are taking photos in front of Lamborghinis and talking about scaling your business to a million dollars in three months. And, and, you know, you feel so vulnerable as an entrepreneur, most entrepreneurs, I mean, they're not even money hungry, necessarily. They're so tired. They're so burnt out. They just want consistent revenue, they want to feel safe, right? Like most of the entrepreneurs I meet, their primary goal is not to just make a whole bunch of money and then retire. They're so passionate about what they do, and they just, they want to impact more people and they want it to be sustainable. And so I think they're very drawn to these messages as, as was I in earlier days. And you're just being sold a very, very expensive system that may not work for your business, may not be aligned with your company values or where you're seeing your company in the future. And it doesn't work, and you're out how much money. And so I guess what I see our experience with you, as is what I hope our members see us says, you know, you focused on, not just chasing those quick wins, like to challenge us to really think about what's sustainable. And to understand there is where we want to be in the future, and what's the road to get there, and it might be a little bit longer, it might take you longer than three months to scale to a million dollars. But once you're there, then the next year is, you know, a million and a half, and then it's 4 million and or maybe you just stay there, but it's sustainable. It's not a million dollars in three months, and then it all goes away. You know what I mean? And you don't have to sustain it. And you're like, What the heck is going on? That was my experience. What about you Annie?

Annie Brees  

I think the thing I really appreciated about working with you, Kathryn was, we had, as Jen mentioned, worked with other people in the past and used their system and their system worked for some people. For whatever reason, we felt a lot of like, this just isn't clicking for us in the way that we were led to believe it could. And ultimately, I think part of the reason it wasn't clicking is because it didn't feel authentic to us. Like, the system just felt like wearing an uncomfortable suit. And it was like I can put this on and I can wear it but like, Oh, I don't like it and you gave us permission to have a more flexible, like, Hey, these are some best practices, here's what seems to be working well, here's what isn't working well, or what you would like to change about this experience, and allows us to kind of go rogue and come up with what works best for us. And then we're able to show up in front of our team and our members and feel really confident and comfortable. 

Jennifer Campbell  

And explain how you know, when we're making changes, this is how this is aligned with our vision and values. And this is why we're doing it, and then everybody's on board. The other thing I want to say about the business coaching world is there is so much gaslighting going on in that world by coaches, when their coaching doesn't work for the business, the coaches are telling these individuals, it's their fault, there's something wrong with them. They have mindset issues they and, and I just I so resent that. I so resent that. And the same thing goes on in the diet industry when certain eating protocols aren't working for people. Well, there's something wrong with you if you couldn't stick to this. And it's just, I just look at it in a whole new light. And honestly, before we worked with you, I was feeling like, like I'm done with business coaches, I'm done with them. And so, but now, I'm not done with them. But my standards are times 1 million, like you know, now I'm very clear on what is good coaching and what is not good coaching?

Kathryn Binkley  

Can you describe a little bit of that difference?

Jennifer Campbell  

I think it is coaching that centers your first of all, your wellness as an entrepreneur. Like, you know, I'm, I'm serious here what I, like there are entrepreneurs that like their physical and emotional health is not good. They're, it's they're so passionate about their business, but it's also destroying them. And so, wellness, number one because if the co-founders or co-founders aren't well, the business is not going to be well. It's not just hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, burn yourself into the ground. Annie and I both have three kids, like we don't have these luxuries of working 16 hours a day, six, seven days a week we have lives and responsibilities that we have to attend to. And want to attend to. I should say that we have other priorities in our life. What else Annie you, you chime in here.

Annie Brees  

I think the biggest difference is our past experiences have felt like a lot of telling, like telling us what to do. Versus as a coaching company. I feel like we can recognize good coaching. And with you Kathryn it was guiding, some leading, some telling yes but also directing, guiding, even following. I'm sure there were times when we had maybe suggestions or ideas that you're like I don't think that's the move but, but they're in charge here. But it's got to feel good to them. And it wasn't just like here, do this. And, and that, I think is the biggest difference. And also, which as I said earlier allowed me to really, like internalize the whole experience. So we could continue applying those, that process, even after we're done working with you.

Kathryn Binkley  

Yeah, I think that's a great way to frame it. Because that's certainly my goal. I don't want to create reliance or dependence on access to a single person, I want to really teach you how to do this for yourself. And

Jennifer Campbell  

which actually makes me think of another story. Andy and I were just talking about this, how you broke up with us. So, and I told Annie, like, that was the moment where I was like, this woman has integrity. But we met for one of our meetings, and you said, Hey, I've been thinking, you know, our last few meetings, you two have had the solutions. And I think you two are ready to go on your own. And we were like, what? And I thought, you know, that's also a sign of a really good coach. So thank you, Kathryn. 

Kathryn Binkley  

Yeah, I mean, that's the goal. That's the goal to get you to that point. So I'm glad that you shared that

Annie Brees  

For some people. It's the goal for some people. There's, there's a fair amount of people in the coaching world, both wellness and business that would rather have you pay indefinitely and not actually teach you the skills. But that wasn't the case with you. And we certainly hope that's not the case with our members.

Kathryn Binkley  

Well, you're right. It's my goal, for sure. So let's go here, just to wrap things up, where are you now, as far as what you're focused on? What's different, versus being me when you came to me? Because feels like very different types of thinking and conversations. We've talked about kind of what you're thinking about before, but what's on your mind now? What do you need to focus on to keep going and to move forward?

Jennifer Campbell  

So like, very high level revenue wise. Here's the other things. I had major money mindset issues before you came on Kathryn, in that, you know, I just had like, a lot of like, am I being greedy for wanting to make more money, and you helped me see that, like, revenue is the queen here, like nothing exists here unless you have sustainable revenue. And revenue equals impact doesn't mean anything. So we work with you to go, you know, six to seven figures. That was the goal. I think we were at 400,000, when we started working with you. And I, and this past year 2021, we did, we were very close to a million we were, we were just shy of a million dollars. So you know, I think Annie and I like we cracked the code, we cracked the code of seven figures. And what I'm thinking about I'm sure Annie's thinking about very different things. I'm thinking about, Okay, now we need to become a $10 million company. What does that look like? What needs to change? So that's one thing I think about, what about you Annie. 

Annie Brees  

This is, this is so like, a perfect example. Jen's, Jen's on this summit of the $10 million mountain. And I am still on the summit of the $1 million mountain and be like, Hey, guys, we got to get everything in order. Get make sure we have our packing list, we have all of our supplies, which I guess, day to day, right now, I'm really focused on team making sure we have all the people that we need to get to that $10 million summit in the right spots, the right people in the right spots, making sure that we have all the systems and the processes, if they don't exist, that we're building them, or they're at least on our radar to build and that we're also optimizing the ones that we currently have to make sure that we're, when we, when we are ready to like push the button to scale this that like we can have that domino chain just effortlessly set off.

Going to be a lot of what you focus on from here on out because at every step that Jen has that bigger vision, you've got to create the systems and the processes and the team to execute at that level. And so you're gonna go through this process over and over, it's definitely going to be iterative, and you'll keep building on it. All right, well, thank you two for joining me. I would love for you to share where everyone can find out more about Balance365 and the work that you do, what's the best place for them to check out the company.

Jennifer Campbell  

balance365life.com you can also follow us on Instagram  @balanced365life.

Kathryn Binkley  

If you resonate with the way that, you know if you're here and you're listening to me week after week on the podcast and you resonate with the way that I do business and health is important to you, then you're going to resonate with the way that they do business as well and the way that they teach you to sustainably lose weight and to create the life that you want. So definitely go follow them, check them out. Follow them in general just to see their business journey as well. All right,

Jennifer Campbell  

Thank you so much, Kathryn. We would not be here without you. We are we're so grateful

Annie Brees  

We'd be at the bottom of the ocean. 

Kathryn Binkley  

I hope not. But you're welcome.